hi i just signed up and was wonderin if anyone could help me?
i have a 1990 prelude and when i start my car in the morning its fine but once i shut it off i have to wait for ages before it will start again sometimes till the next day sometime only 15 mins.
all it does is roll over.
any help would be great. i love my car but i will have to get rid of it if i can't fix this problem and i really don't want to do that!!
starting problems
Moderators: RedRacer, spiffyguido
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aus_prelude
- Prelude Enthusiast
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:30 pm
- Prelude Model: 90 gen3 4ws si moded
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spiffyguido
- Moderator
- Posts: 2196
- Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:55 am
- Prelude Model: 1991 SE-SR
- Location: Alberta, Canada
- Contact:
Re: starting problems
My experience is that this problem is usually caused by a bad coolant temperature sensor. When the sensor is bad, you ECU can't tell how warm the coolant is, so it mistakingly allocates too much fuel for a warm engine. It's part of the electronic choke system that all PGM-FI cars have.
Your coolant temperature sensor is screwed into the thermostat housing. Follow your upper radiator hose to the engine. Near where the hose goes into the engine on the front you will see a two-wire plug (usually green) that goes into a circular sensor. This is the coolant temp sensor. The next time you run into this problem, just unplug it and the car should start right up. I've had the same problem before so I know how annoying it can be. Took me a good while to figure out what was wrong, especially since a coolant temp sensor can go bad and not throw an ECU code. Very difficult problem to diagnose.
Give this a try and let us know how it works out. If the coolant temp sensor has gone bad, it's easy to replace and not expensive at all.
Let us know. It may be something else, and if that's the case, we're happy to help you out more.
Welcome to PreludeDriver.com!
Your coolant temperature sensor is screwed into the thermostat housing. Follow your upper radiator hose to the engine. Near where the hose goes into the engine on the front you will see a two-wire plug (usually green) that goes into a circular sensor. This is the coolant temp sensor. The next time you run into this problem, just unplug it and the car should start right up. I've had the same problem before so I know how annoying it can be. Took me a good while to figure out what was wrong, especially since a coolant temp sensor can go bad and not throw an ECU code. Very difficult problem to diagnose.
Give this a try and let us know how it works out. If the coolant temp sensor has gone bad, it's easy to replace and not expensive at all.
Let us know. It may be something else, and if that's the case, we're happy to help you out more.
Welcome to PreludeDriver.com!
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aus_prelude
- Prelude Enthusiast
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:30 pm
- Prelude Model: 90 gen3 4ws si moded
Re: starting problems
thanks for the help sorry i took so long gettin back.
unfortunaley i found the sensor plug and tried what you sugested but it has not made any differance. it is still doing the exact same thing. i have tried every thing i can think of. i was told by a friend that there is a unit of some sort that controls the fuel pump and it is prone to developing cracks in the solder joint in it. have you heard of this before and if so could this be the problem? also if so how do i go about finding and fixing it?
any help would be really apreaciated.
unfortunaley i found the sensor plug and tried what you sugested but it has not made any differance. it is still doing the exact same thing. i have tried every thing i can think of. i was told by a friend that there is a unit of some sort that controls the fuel pump and it is prone to developing cracks in the solder joint in it. have you heard of this before and if so could this be the problem? also if so how do i go about finding and fixing it?
any help would be really apreaciated.
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RedRacer
- Moderator
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:38 pm
- Prelude Model: 1995 Si w/mods
- Location: Alabama
Re: starting problems
Yes, most seasoned Honda owners have heard of it...... it's known as the dreaded Honda main relay........ it's located under the dash, way up in the top left corner. It can be reached by skinny people with long arms rather easily. This shoddy design causing dry joints in the solder has been the bane of many a Honda owner's existence. Rest assured, you can replace it or repair it easily enough. No need to sell the car.
You can do it yourself or have someone do it for you. Due to the fact that I don't like hanging upside down under dashboards and feeding my arms up and into really small places next to all kinds of sharp pieces of metal (at least it was like that in my 1992 Accord) I just took it to my mechanic and had him replace it.
The only odd thing I'm finding about your case here, is that main relays don't show their arse until warm weather. The soldering/circuit board develops the dry joints over time and when the temps warm up, the board material expands, the dry joint area expands with it and contact is broken and presto, the car won't start. MARK THAT -- Aus_Prelude. You're in Australia, it's summer there. AH! Never mind. It's so freaking very much winter here ........ it's like -6'C here...(20'F)
Sounds exactly like what you are experiencing though. Starts fine when it's cool out in the morning or the car has not been driven. Once things heat up, outside and inside the car, expansion happens and the car again won't start for a while or not at all until maybe the next day.
Now, like I said, you have options. ASSUMING it is the main relay. You can remove it, crack it open and resolder the old unit, OR you can remove it, buy a new one, and plug it back in. My personal suggestion : go new and go Honda. The most it's going to set you back is around 40-50 bucks, if that.
1) One of the definitive checks to find out if the relay is the problem is listening to the car when you start it. There are three clicks and usually one of them, the last one, is missing if the relay is bad. If you hear all three, then the relay isn't the problem. You'll hear the clicking coming from up under the left side of the dash/steering column area. If the relay clicks correctly but the car still doesn't start, then start looking somewhere else, like checking the fuel pump, ignition and other sources.
ORDER OF CLICKS : *turn off radio, fans, close doors and windows - do this in a quiet environment.
Turn ignition to ON (but not to START): Click 1
Check Engine light goes off: Click 2
You now turn the key to START: Click 3 right before the starter engages and the engine fires.
This third click is usually the one that you won't hear. If you don't hear this third click, then the car won't start which means it's most assuredly the main relay.
2) If you want to attempt this yourself, first disconnect the battery just to be sure that you don't fry any part of your Prelude's electrical system, etc.
3) Find the main relay, it will be a small, gray box attached to a metal bracket or the fuse box or the steering column. It might be black too. It should read "RELAY ASS'Y MAIN and have MITSUBA printed above that. Typically, it sits behind the dashboard up and to the left of the steering column in a section slightly up and behind a large section of wiring for the fuse panel. In my car it's back up behind the hood release....way the hell up there. VERY annoying and difficult to reach.
4) Once you've located it and released it from any mounts, unplug it from the base and pull off. If you do this and replace or repair the relay, don't get lazy and use a lock-tite twisty thing to hang it back up. Do it the right way. Re-attach it the same.
5) Pop the new relay into place by gently gripping the relay connector base and firmly pushing the relay into it without touching the solder components of the relay or the connector wiring. Check that the fit is secure, as current running through a loose relay can cause the relay to overheat or the outer casing to melt.
That's my method, a method of words.
Below, I have given you two really great links with images that will show and tell all you need to know. I have to give the owners due credit for having the info on their site. One day I will get around to making a sticky for this repair on Prelude Driver, as it is a very common Honda problem and a lot of people ask about it.
Mad props to http://www.tegger.com and to MarkLamond.co.uk ! Both of these sites are very helpful and well done.
Excellent link: Instructions and images .... VERY helpful.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html
Second excellent link: Instructions, images and how to actually repair the old unit if you choose.
http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-honda/ ... -relay.htm
Make sure you click the images on the pages provided via the links I've given above. The images enlarge and are very high-res to show you what exactly you're looking at.
Good Luck!
~ Josh
You can do it yourself or have someone do it for you. Due to the fact that I don't like hanging upside down under dashboards and feeding my arms up and into really small places next to all kinds of sharp pieces of metal (at least it was like that in my 1992 Accord) I just took it to my mechanic and had him replace it.
The only odd thing I'm finding about your case here, is that main relays don't show their arse until warm weather. The soldering/circuit board develops the dry joints over time and when the temps warm up, the board material expands, the dry joint area expands with it and contact is broken and presto, the car won't start. MARK THAT -- Aus_Prelude. You're in Australia, it's summer there. AH! Never mind. It's so freaking very much winter here ........ it's like -6'C here...(20'F)
Sounds exactly like what you are experiencing though. Starts fine when it's cool out in the morning or the car has not been driven. Once things heat up, outside and inside the car, expansion happens and the car again won't start for a while or not at all until maybe the next day.
Now, like I said, you have options. ASSUMING it is the main relay. You can remove it, crack it open and resolder the old unit, OR you can remove it, buy a new one, and plug it back in. My personal suggestion : go new and go Honda. The most it's going to set you back is around 40-50 bucks, if that.
1) One of the definitive checks to find out if the relay is the problem is listening to the car when you start it. There are three clicks and usually one of them, the last one, is missing if the relay is bad. If you hear all three, then the relay isn't the problem. You'll hear the clicking coming from up under the left side of the dash/steering column area. If the relay clicks correctly but the car still doesn't start, then start looking somewhere else, like checking the fuel pump, ignition and other sources.
ORDER OF CLICKS : *turn off radio, fans, close doors and windows - do this in a quiet environment.
Turn ignition to ON (but not to START): Click 1
Check Engine light goes off: Click 2
You now turn the key to START: Click 3 right before the starter engages and the engine fires.
This third click is usually the one that you won't hear. If you don't hear this third click, then the car won't start which means it's most assuredly the main relay.
2) If you want to attempt this yourself, first disconnect the battery just to be sure that you don't fry any part of your Prelude's electrical system, etc.
3) Find the main relay, it will be a small, gray box attached to a metal bracket or the fuse box or the steering column. It might be black too. It should read "RELAY ASS'Y MAIN and have MITSUBA printed above that. Typically, it sits behind the dashboard up and to the left of the steering column in a section slightly up and behind a large section of wiring for the fuse panel. In my car it's back up behind the hood release....way the hell up there. VERY annoying and difficult to reach.
4) Once you've located it and released it from any mounts, unplug it from the base and pull off. If you do this and replace or repair the relay, don't get lazy and use a lock-tite twisty thing to hang it back up. Do it the right way. Re-attach it the same.
5) Pop the new relay into place by gently gripping the relay connector base and firmly pushing the relay into it without touching the solder components of the relay or the connector wiring. Check that the fit is secure, as current running through a loose relay can cause the relay to overheat or the outer casing to melt.
That's my method, a method of words.
Below, I have given you two really great links with images that will show and tell all you need to know. I have to give the owners due credit for having the info on their site. One day I will get around to making a sticky for this repair on Prelude Driver, as it is a very common Honda problem and a lot of people ask about it.
Mad props to http://www.tegger.com and to MarkLamond.co.uk ! Both of these sites are very helpful and well done.
Excellent link: Instructions and images .... VERY helpful.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html
Second excellent link: Instructions, images and how to actually repair the old unit if you choose.
http://www.marklamond.co.uk/tech-honda/ ... -relay.htm
Make sure you click the images on the pages provided via the links I've given above. The images enlarge and are very high-res to show you what exactly you're looking at.
Good Luck!
~ Josh
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aus_prelude
- Prelude Enthusiast
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:30 pm
- Prelude Model: 90 gen3 4ws si moded
Re: starting problems
hey guys thanks for the help.
once i read red racers post about the main relay i went straight to the car and 20 mins later no more problem.
i found it a little hard to find because we sit on the other side of the car here and they didn't just mirror everything. i had to get in behind and above the fuse panel. my car is set up a lot different to the pics i got from over there.
my car is running really well now. i have been stoping and starting it all day just cause i can.
no more getting yelled at at the gas station for leaving my car running. if i was over there i would be buying the drinks so thanks again.
i will definatly be telling my friends to join up here.
tim
once i read red racers post about the main relay i went straight to the car and 20 mins later no more problem.
i found it a little hard to find because we sit on the other side of the car here and they didn't just mirror everything. i had to get in behind and above the fuse panel. my car is set up a lot different to the pics i got from over there.
my car is running really well now. i have been stoping and starting it all day just cause i can.
no more getting yelled at at the gas station for leaving my car running. if i was over there i would be buying the drinks so thanks again.
i will definatly be telling my friends to join up here.
tim
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RedRacer
- Moderator
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:38 pm
- Prelude Model: 1995 Si w/mods
- Location: Alabama
Re: starting problems
Tim,
Hey man that's GREAT! Glad to know it worked out for you. And pretty easy at that for the most part.
Did you buy a new part or did you fix the joints on the old one?
Hey man that's GREAT! Glad to know it worked out for you. And pretty easy at that for the most part.
Did you buy a new part or did you fix the joints on the old one?
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aus_prelude
- Prelude Enthusiast
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:30 pm
- Prelude Model: 90 gen3 4ws si moded
Re: starting problems
i fixed the old one. a job that it turned out is incredably easy especially when i had those pics you put me on to.
i am usually really good at this sort of thing but this one just had me stumpped.
i use the car on the track a lot (drive it there race it and drive it home) but haven't been abel to for a while because of this so now i can go and test the new brakes and cold air intake and see how it goes.
now i'm done fixing it i can get back to modding it some more.
i am usually really good at this sort of thing but this one just had me stumpped.
i use the car on the track a lot (drive it there race it and drive it home) but haven't been abel to for a while because of this so now i can go and test the new brakes and cold air intake and see how it goes.
now i'm done fixing it i can get back to modding it some more.