Red's DEAD

[RedRacer]

Well fellas, the day finally came .... the not so obvious damage from the hydro-locked engine back in July of last year, finally revealed itself in catastrophic engine failure this evening.

I have been driving the car on and off with the bogging down/bad sensor issue that has plagued me since about two weeks after the water logged engine. In fact, it seemed to be clearing up and the engine had been running a lot better the past few weeks as the outside temps have become warmer.

HOWEVER -- this evening I ran her down to Sam's Club to get a tank of discount priced fuel, got about a mile from the station after filling up, pulled off from a red light and in second gear heard a very nasty sound come from the engine compartment and outside of the car and the engine shut down. Red lights across the dash.

Coasted into a turn out, threw the hazards on. It was just getting dark so couldn't see much when looking under the hood. Flashlight didn't want to cooperate so I just said "whatever" and let it be.

Called in a wrecker and sat and waited. I was holding out for hope that it was just the timing belt or balancer, etc. BUT, when the wrecker arrived about 30 minutes later and I got out and walked around the front of the car, I saw all of my engine oil pooled on the ground in an area about 5x6 feet around where it had drained out while the car had been sitting on a slight angle where I had rolled to a stop.

SO -- whatever broke loose shot down and blew out through the oil pan, no doubt. Connecting rod most likely. Towed her home and put her back in the garage.

Can't beat myself up too much I guess as I knew that this very scenario would or could play out down the road after the miraculous "still running great" hydro-lock event. Someone, maybe even the mechanic who built that engine told me directly after we got it revived from the hydro-lock that "Just because it's running good now doesn't mean that a few days, weeks or months down the road that something damaged won't give out and blow through the side of the block or the head, etc." I guess if I can try and find a best case scenario, at least it didn't go through the top and I don't think it came through the side. Had just pulled off from a light, was driving it easy, not high speed or high rpms. Might have dampened the damage a little bit.

What's to say I will do with her now? Dunno. Money is way tight and I just don't have the funds I had a year or two ago to make a major engine rebuild or replace.

Anyway, mourn the loss of Red, as she has definitely given up her mechanical ghost on this day.

And forgive me for being direct, but what a bullshit way to start off my Honda Indy Car weekend! Unreal......

http://barbermotorsports.com/indy/index.php

[spiffyguido]

Ugggh, uggghh, ugggh. Worst news on this forum in years, no doubt. So sad for you.

Your engine is certainly done for. After all that you've been through after the water incident, I can't help but wonder if one of your connecting rods was actually bent and just waited a little while to let go. When I raced in the Chump Car race last year, the car's head gasket blew out and flooded one of the cylinders. We killed the engine and finished the day. Later on, during a teardown of the motor we noted that one of the connecting rods was deflected a full 1/4 inch laterally. It didn't blow out while we were running the car, but I'm sure it would've eventually.

Anyway, you don't need me to remind you about the state of your engine. Pretty safe to say that your current block, bottom end and maybe your head are completely knackered. All that's left to do now is figure out what to do next. I'm sure that the timing isn't great for you. I know how tight things are these days.

On the plus side, the rest of the 'lude is in great shape, and the rest of your engine components and tranny are probably fine. You're in the market for a new block and maybe head. It's going to set you back some to get the car back on the road, but it sounds like it could be worthwhile. All in, it'll cost you probably $500 in parts, and then labor to get it put in.

I know the lude is an old friend of yours. I'm sure you'll figure something out. We're here to help with ideas.

[crizma]

I'm very sorry that Red is dead : (. Yesterday something went very wrong with my red 92 si ..it never has ran hot but I looked at my gauge and it was pegged to HOT. Pulled over and the pressure popped out my dipstick and cracked my radiator. Then I noticed the water in my oil and oil in my water.
Lucky for me that the cost will be 1200 for total repair. This is a good price isn't it? I just cannot give up on my baby, not yet.

[spiffyguido]

The $1200 I assume is the price for a new radiator and a new head gasket. Doesn't seem like a terrible price, although you'd be able to do it cheaper yourself if you're so inclined.

[RedRacer]

I'm very sorry that Red is dead : (. Yesterday something went very wrong with my red 92 si ..it never has ran hot but I looked at my gauge and it was pegged to HOT. Pulled over and the pressure popped out my dipstick and cracked my radiator. Then I noticed the water in my oil and oil in my water.
Lucky for me that the cost will be 1200 for total repair. This is a good price isn't it? I just cannot give up on my baby, not yet.

Sounds about right to me. Maybe a tad overpriced, but I don't know where you are and all the details. Make sure you know (and have in writing) all agreements concerning warranty on parts, labor, how long they guarantee their work, etc. Get all of that in writing before you sign anything and hand over your cash.

Good luck!

[crizma]

Thanks Red Racer.
If I had the knowledge of how to fix it myself, I still wouldn't. Can't say I would even drive on a tire that I personally changed

The 1200 was a rough estimate, today the rough estimate went up 700 this is before it is even taken apart and actually looked at. The list of (predicted) parts replaced is so far: Radiator, water pump, timing belt, and head gasket of warped head .. something along that effect.
When it over heated, the oil and water (combo) spewed everywhere, looked like throw up. This is why water pump and other things need replacing , mechanic said. The timing belt replacement is just for good measure since it's already taken apart. Does this make sense to you? Just making sure I can trust the mechanic, I really do trust him but this is like trusting an lawyer .
My car has 225,000 miles and I live in the DFW area,

[spiffyguido]

I agree that it's a good idea to do the timing belt at the same time. The belt will have to be removed anyway to get the head off, so you might as well get it changed. $700 is a steep increase. Not sure what your relationship to the mechanic is like, but you may want to try and negotiate that rate. See if you can supply all the parts yourself so that you can bear the burden of shopping around for some deals. No matter what happens, just be certain to get the deal ironed out before you hand over the car. Mechanics can run up big bills if they see an opening for unrequested repairs, etc.

[crizma]

will do : )

[crizma]

today I get a call from mechanic, the price has gone up again to est 2300. I'm devastated.
Cracked head gasket

[spiffyguido]

A cracked head gasket is hardly a death sentence for a car. Yes, there's a heck of a lot of labor required to get it out and put in a new one, but $2300 sounds steep to me, even with the other work done.

Time to get a second opinion? I could be out of touch with what mechanics charge these days as I typically do all my own work, but that still seems steep.

Your mechanic might be getting jittery about what else he may find once he cracks open the engine. A cracked head gasket is a simple enough fix, until he gets in there and realizes that the engine overheated to the point of warping the head deck in which case you'd be shopping for a new engine or getting the head machined (more $). You seem like a pretty attentive person, so I'm guessing when you noticed the needle crawling high you shut the car down and the likelihood that you've warped the head is low. Just understand that I bring this up to try to draw attention to why the mechanic might be raising the price.

There's a whole slew of things that COULD be wrong with the engine, right up to bent connecting rods, etc. But most likely the head gasket just cracked as you were merrily driving around and one of the pistons stuffed 100+ psi of pressure into your water jacket, bursting the rad and puking the engines coolant all over the place. This isn't a particularly rare happening where old cars are concerned, so unless you're unlucky enough to have had the engine really turf itself, it shouldn't break your bank to get it repaired.

I suppose you can always start pursuing other avenues. A few come to mind:

If you're willing to take it slow, buy a few tools, read the service manual a bit, and try and do some or all of the work yourself. This might not be your cup of tea, but if you've ever wanted to learn about auto mechanics, this is as good a project as anything. If you can tackle this, there's little else you wouldn't be able to do. Once a mechanic job sees you playing with timing belts and head bolts you're creeping into advanced mechanical ability. Perhaps this isn't an interest area of yours, and if that's the case, best to let someone else do it. But if learning how to work on an engine is on your bucket list, this is a great opportunity to learn.

Another option is to think about an engine swap. A full engine can be had for very little money these days compared to the parts that you'd have to buy. If you were able to have confidence in the quality of the donor engine it's an option worth pursuing. I've pulled and replaced an engine in a 4th generation Prelude in a long afternoon without air tools and with very little help. Your mechanic might see this as being far easier.

My $0.02.

[crizma]

It's cracked head, I was wrong about just needing the head gasket.
I think I will check around for a reasonable motor. Feeling pretty sick right now, trying to figure out wtf happened.
BTW it is 2.3 dohc 5 speed p[relude si over 200 miles.

It was pegged to HOT when I glanced at the temp gauge, it had to of happened fast as hell because just 10 min previous I was out of my car and thought I heard the fan going (never has done this before). Put my ear to the hood and felt the hood and it wasn't hot, didn't hear or smell anything that would lead me to think it was hot. Three miles later.... you know the rest of my story.

Mechanic said that the puke looking stuff (oil and water I guess) was all in water pump and other places but not in my oil itself. The dipstick was popped out when we first checked under the hood. Oil was only 1/2 qt low, radiator was busted in a few places. yadda yadda yadda.


So, it's probably not worth fixing if it cost more to fix it than it did to buy the entire car? Just don't want to buy someone else's problems, or start over.

First I will check rebuilt and motor swap. Thanks for responding so quickly

quick question Off the topic
why am I on "Lude Dude"
level? You should add "lude lady" cause noway do I want to be called a dude. I'm kidding, no... really seriously suggesting "lude lady" added to level of participation on forum.

[RedRacer]

Hey Crizma - I was going to head into the land of suggesting a new engine, or used engine as the case may be. At this point with this repair you're already spending close to half, or in a really good case, almost ALL of what it would take to have your current engine completely rebuilt, or get a clean install on a new/used motor.

If you go with this repair right now, you're spending a lot of dough on this specific repair to get your engine running again, and that's a lot of $$ to spend and not even have new internals all the way through --- AND to spread a little more sunshine -- in doing this repair, you're risking the chance that after you spend $3k, the 200 thousand mile engine decides to go ahead and throw a rod or just blow the hell up in the coming 6 months or 6 days. That would suck!

I TOTALLY understand your dilemma right now and and it's frustrating. Money is tight, you love your car, you don't want to venture into the world of unknown other cars because you know yours is good as far as everything else is concerned, except for the motor. GAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!!! Makes you want to scream doesn't it?!

I am leaning toward Spiffy's second suggestion. Replacement engine.

If you have other means of getting around, and can put your Prelude up for now and store it until you can get things fixed, that is what I would do. (actually that IS what I am doing w/my car)

Sorry you're having to deal with this. I hate it for ya, I really do. Hope you get it figured out soon, and that you will let us know how things progress.

As for getting your ranking changed to a more feminine side, I looked around in the admin control panel and couldn't find where or how. So we'll leave that in Spiffy's very capable IT hands. I agree, you should have be able to be a lude-lady if you so choose! We're not sexist here at PDriver! We believe that all Prelude Drivers are created EQUAL!

[crizma]

: ) thank you for your response. I found a 800.00 rebuilt motor with a 3 month warranty. Going to check that out tomorrow.
There is no other way to get around, needing some wheels asap. TY for the advice. You guys are always very helpful.

[spiffyguido]

$800 doesn't sound too bad, and the warranty ads some level of assurance.

Glad we helped. Keep us updated on any progress and further questions. Your lude is a nice one so we're happy to hear you're going to get it back on the road where it belongs.

Also, you'll note that I had your rank changed. 'Lude Lady' had a nice ring to it. Enjoy.

[crizma]

That was so nice of you!


Thank you