New guy with a project.

[96stroker]

What's up guys? Normally I'm big into Diesel performance (I have a 1996 F250 7.3 Powerstroke that I have modified heavily ), but yesterday I came across a deal on a 1991 Prelude with the B21A1 that I just could not pass up.

Here's a little background. I bought the car from a kid I work with. He was originally from Mississippi, but moved out here to Wyoming for school. While in Wyo, he bought the car for cheap to get around in. Then, he got a job working where I do in No. Colorado, so he moved down here, and drove the car for a few weeks, until it popped a head gasket. He put a new gasket in it, but could not get it to run. He didn't want to put any more money in it, so he parked it and bought an '06 Mazda.

The Prelude has a brand new exhaust system, good tires and aftermarket rims, 5 speed stick, CAI, and a nice little stereo system. It has 190k miles, and it in actually pretty good shape inside and out. No rust, no dents (although it has had some very slight Bondo work done, and there's two roughly quarter size spots that chipped off), and the interior is pretty clean aside from some tears in the driver's side seat side support.

The best part? I gave 200 bucks for it, and I know I could easily sell the wheels and tires for that.

So, I screwed around with it a little bit today, and I think I'm either not getting power to the starter solenoid, or it's bad. I need to get a multi-meter on it, but I swear the damn thing grew legs and took a hike. The Neutral Safety/clutch switch is good. All lights work. When I turn the key, the lights don't dim or anything. I just can[t get it to crank over. Fuses and Relays all appear to be good. I also pulled the spark plugs out, and realized there was like 3/4 to 1" of oil down in each little spark plug "valley" (for lack of a better term). Do you think this is just spilled oil, or is it something I should be concerned about?

I'm sure this is only the first of many questions I will have since I don't know much about Hondas. I work at a Honda dealership, but I only do basic things like oil changes, fluid flushes, tire mounting/balancing, brake jobs, etc...

Oh yeah, here's a pic I took this morning before unloading it, for anyone interested to see:

[RedRacer]

Dang! Sounds like a pretty good deal so far --

So you're not getting anything from the starter at all? Doesn't engage to turn the flywheel?

Oil in the plug ports could be just poorly replaced (misaligned to the valve cover) O-rings around the spark plug ports in the valve-cover. Or they might actually be bad and are leaking. Have you pulled the plugs out? They're dry inside, right?

I'm not the bigger 3rd gen guy here, Spiffy Guido is. I'm thinking he will chime in very soon and give you some really good ideas.

If it runs, with his help, I bet you can get this car on the road shortly.

[96stroker]

I'm gettin' nada from the starter. I asked the kid about ti at work today, and he said after he put the head back on, it cranked a few times and then just called it quits.

The inside the boots seemed dry, except for one. But it may have got in there from handling it. I'll have to look at it when I get home.

I'll be looking forward to his input!


OK, a little update - I had the starter tested, and it is in fact bad. The solenoid engages the starter, but it just won't spin. I didn't really want to fork over $150 for a new starter (considering that's 75% of what I paid for the whole dang car), so I found a used starter on eBay for $50. I e-mailed the guy asking if it was from an automatic or manual, since apparently the two starters are different. Provided it's for a manual, I'm gonna pick it up and hope it works.

I also found I had a massive fuel leak, and came to discover the bolt holding the fuel line to the fuel rail was hardly finger tight. Cranked it down and no more issues as of yet.

So obviously it's getting fuel, and with a functioning starter, I don't see why it wouldn't run!

[spiffyguido]

Sounds like you're on a good track.

Get those spark plug ports cleaned up so that you have good connectivity and then see if it runs once you get the new starter in. My guess is that it will spark right up. Keep us posted. We can offer additional help as you progress.

[96stroker]

I'm trying to track down a used starter at the moment. I'm in college and I'd rather not fork out 75% of what I paid for the car for a new starter. But if it comes down to it I guess I'll have to cough it up. I've only found ONE used starter on eBay, craigslist didn't have anything to offer.

The guy on Ebay wants 50 bucks, so I offered him 40 and am waiting on a response. Hopefully he'll take it!

[RedRacer]

Of course the deal on Ebay would be choice -- but if not, I priced a couple of cheap starters at Advance and Auto Zone (assuming you have those near you) for about 67 to 70 bucks. No junk yards around you with Preludes?

Have you removed the spark plugs from the head? If you have, are they dry or are there any signs of oil in the cylinder(s)? You're obviously familiar with working on cars and trucks, but of course, I have to say, make sure you clean that oil off from around those ports really well before you pull the plugs out.

And since I've opened up this idea, if you have not already done so, and you do remove the plugs, make sure you put a smear of anti-seize compound around the threads of those plugs -- I've never owned a car that gave me more fits with seized plugs in aluminum heads than my Hondas. And if you have removed and reinstalled them, I would go ahead while they're still freshly removed and pull them back out and put some compound on anyway. Never hurts to have that applied.

Keep us posted, interested in knowing if you got a steal of a deal for this little car.

[96stroker]

As I said, I made an offer on the one I found on eBay. If he doesn't accept it, I'm just going to go buy a new one from Autozone. No sense in buying a 22 year old starter for $75 (50 plus 25 shipping), when I can get a new one for $115 locally.

I do have the plugs out. I peered down into the cylinders with a flashlight, and didn't see any obvious signs of oil, only what was down in where the plugs sit. Any tips on how to clean 'em out when it's like 6 inches into the head? I haven't dealt with spark plugs in 2 or 3 years (since I drive a diesel now). I am very familiar with motors though, I've been tinkering on jetskis, dirtbikes, boats, cars and trucks since I was just a little fella. Thanks for the tip on the anti-sieze.

I'm just waiting on the response from the guy with the starter. Once I have a starter in, I'll be able to see how lucky I got.


EDIT: The guy on eBay accepted my offer of 40 bucks. So hopefully in about a week, I'll be able to tell how I made out with the car!

[RedRacer]

In your situation, that's the logic I would have to go with. While an original Honda starter is built to last, how much more does a 22 year old one have left in it for the same price you would paid for an aftermarket new or rebuild from the corner store?

You could blow the ports clean with compressed air, but easy does it. Or you can spray some carb cleaner down in and use a flathead screwdriver to stuff a carb cleaner soaked cloth down in and soak up the mess and clean it out.

Some would say remove the plugs and let the oil drain in and burn off. NO NO NO a thousand times NO! That would let all the fine pieces of dirt and trash in that stagnant oil get into the cylinder and score the walls, etc. NEVER do that. (I know you know better probably, but since others will be reading this, I have to put in the warnings)

Of course if we were in the "money is no object" plan, I would say buy a new gasket for the cover, new o-rings for the ports, remove the head cover from the engine, clean it off the car with
parts cleaner, and degreaser, touch it up with paint where needed and then put the new gaskets on all the way around and put it back on the engine.

You're going to need to consider that anyway because once you get it clean and the oil gone, you'll know right off after getting it running if the ports fill up again that the o-rings are bad. And if they are, they should be replaced -- They're like 3 dollars a piece,new, from the Honda dealer.

It would be great to keep this at 200 bucks spent, but if you want to get this car running you're going to have to spend a few dollars -- and I'm guessing for about another hundred bucks to get it tweaked just right, it will be worth the few dollars more spend when you sell it for a LOT more once you get it running.

[91darkness]

If you really need to clean it out, use some stuff called seafoam. you can get it from the autoparts store. It will clean out any gunk and old carbon deposits. It works pretty well. You pull off a vacuum line. I used the power steering line, and let it sip on the contents. It will cause your rpms to shoot up. I have used it before and my brother uses it all the time. http://www.seafoamsales.com/
It will look like you lit a rocket when it come out the exhaust lol.

[96stroker]

RedRacer - I thought about that, but once I submitted my offer, I couldn't find any way to retract it. And as you can see in the edit I put in my last post, I just got a notification that he accepted my offer. So with shipping, the old one is about 65 bucks.

As far as cleaning the plug ports... It sounds like the carb cleaner soaked cloth/ screwdriver could work, I may have to give that a shot. I know I'll have to put a few dollars in this, obviously you can't expect to buy a car for $200 and hit the road with it right away. If it needs new o-rings in the head cover, that's no biggie. I work at a Honda dealer anyway, so I could probably get them for even cheaper.

I've also found some cut wires (I'm guessing where a sensor connector used to be), that appear to have connected to a sensor in the thermostat housing (which I'm guessing is the CTS). Still gotta deal with that, but I don't think it's neccessary to get it to at least run, is it?

And I have read much about seafoam and seen many videos. If I think it needs it, I could give it a shot!

[RedRacer]

Seafoam is a good product, but I'd stop at directly putting into the engine via any method. Every mechanic I've known and others here have advised against it. And even with all the positive testimony out there on the net, I too have had to reaffirm and ask those in the know, and have been told steer clear of putting it in the engine directly as it can cause harm to valve seals, etc. and removes deposits that can be good and needed.

Not saying it will cause damage or harm, and with no disrespect for 91Dark's advise - I just say it in a "use it at your own risk" tone.

When the guy who built my engine (and many, many others) turbo and all, from the ground up said that he would never put it or any of the other similar products in any engine he's built or owned, I respect his reasons for saying so.

I use it in my gas tank and while I've seen maybe a touch of improvement in throttle response and maybe a tap in the fuel economy, it's never been anything that justifies 11 bucks a can.

[spiffyguido]

I'll second the suggestion to use a screwdriver and rag to clean out the plug holes. You want something that is absorbent to stop too much goo finding its way into the combustion chamber.

Regarding the sensor with the cut wires: Should be two sensor plugged into the thermostat housing. The one on the left (single wire) is the sending unit for the temperature gauge. The one on the right (two wite) is the ECT sensor. I've guessing you're referring to the ECT sensor, in which case, to answer your question, no, it won't prevent you from starting the car. Without the sensor working, you'll find that the engine will struggle to idle and won't want to start hot. The sensor forms part of the electronic choke in the ECU and without a signal the ECU will feed gas like you're cold starting and the car will drown in gas when the engine is already hot.

The ECT sensor does wear out over time, so if you get bad behaviour once it is reconnected, just get a new one. They're not expensive.

[96stroker]

So I just went out and peered at it. There's look to be three sensors, all within about 2 inches of each other, kind of forming a triangle. There is one with a single red wire and bullet type connector, which is all in tact. Then there is a round two-wire connector, which from what I can tell, has a black wire and a white/green wire running into it. The white/green wire is broken off from the connector, and the black wire isn't too far behind. Then, there is the third sensor, with two prongs sticking out of it. That's what I'm guessing the last two wires (which, from what I could tell, were brown, and white/green) went to. But, it's hard to say as whatever type of connector may have been on these wires was cut off.

[spiffyguido]

The two wires farthest to the left are a ground I believe. They just terminate on the thermostat housing. The middle one is the single wire. The one on the right is a sensor and should have a cylindrical connection.

I've included a picture below that should help. It shows the wires as they should be. You can sort of see the colors as well.

[96stroker]

Well, on my motor, there's a third plug up above and between those the two connectors on your motor (Almost looks like yours has a freeze plug or something there...?) I was meaning to snap a picture before I left for work this morning, but I completely blanked it...