HOT Start problems

[spiffyguido]

Okay, well let's just back up a bit. I realize that you are frustrated, but let me just get an overview here so that I know where we're at. I have trouble sometimes keeping up with which user is having which issue. Forgive me if I ask any questions that we've covered or that are simple. I just want to be thorough.

-Is the ECU throwing any codes at all? Don't look at the light in the dash. Actually pull the ashtray from the rear driver's side seat out and see if there are any codes flashing on the ECU. Do this while the car is running, or right after a failed start when the ignition is still in 'on'.

Fuel
-Is the fuel pump working? You switched yours out, so this should be fine.
-Is the fuel filter in good condition?
-Are the injectors working correctly?
-Is the Fuel Pressure Regulator working?

Air
-Is there a blockage in the throttle?
-Is the idle adjusted appropriately?
-Are the EACV, IAC, TA, TPS and MAP sensors working properly?

Spark
-Is the timing set correctly?
-Is the distributor functioning?
-Are the distributor rotor and cap in good condition?
-Is the coil well connected and functional?
-Are the plug wires each functional?
-Has each spark plug been tested and gapped correctly and are they the model suggested by Honda?
-Are the spark plug hole threads clear of oil and debris?

General
-Is the starter working well?

[kytarheel71]

It is throwing a code 12 which is the EGR system. it has been doing that as long as i have had the car. I posted about here before but never got it solved and now this problem has arose which has taken over ,, i also have the PGM FI warning light which comes on 1 mile after taking off (like clockwork).
fuel system
everything has been checked and good.
Air system- not to sure in all those.
I have not taken throttle body off- planned on doing that this weekend and thoroughly cleaning it. And not sure on the idle adjustment, dont know if i did that right, nothing seems to have made a difference in starting problems. All sensors have checked out good, except where is the EACV valve- dont't remember checking that. Also just discovered tonight that my throttle cable was very loose , to much free play just never noticed it before, hopefully got that adjusted right.
Spark
Assuming timing was set correctly after timing belt replacement at the shop, everything else is new except for the distributor body itself.
General
Starter seems OK, it cranks away everytime trying to start the car.
I just dont understand this problem with the warm weather and starting difficulties. Once it is running it is great. it starts fine in the mornings. I mean i do research on the net every day trying to find something that stands out. The only thing so far is the igniter can mimmick the main relay problem. I have an extra one off of the parts car i stripped and i will try that this weekend also, dont think the distributor is any good though off of that car, although i may try it anyways..

[kytarheel71]

Maybe these two videos can help. the first one is of the car trying to turn over and then just nothing each time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu810Lv2wWo

The second it finally starts but slowly shutters up to idle , you just cant tell it in the video very good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3bHHMuBjs4

[kytarheel71]

Also check out this video, right and the very end where it catches, that is what it is doing more and more of now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tiZcPW1GDc

[kytarheel71]

OK we discovered that the ignition timing was way off could not even see the green mark at first. We got that set and am gonna take it for a test but it is still making that clunking noise when we try and start it most of the time like at the end of the last video. At least i made some sort of prgress finally.

[spiffyguido]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. Haven't been able to check the vids while at work.

How are things after the timing was adjusted, that must have made a difference. We talked before about the possibility that the timing was off, so I'm glad that this is now fixed.

As for the clunking noise, although it's hard to tell from the video, it sounds like it's coming from the starter. Almost as if the starter disengages while it is cranking. Would you say this is accurate? Could be the starter solenoid as these will make very audible clicks when they are malfunctioning or not getting sufficient voltage from the battery. Check to make sure that your wiring to the starter is good (careful, don't spark yourself). The starter requires serious amperage and they get really unhappy when the battery can't deliver. Try starting the car while it is connected to another running vehicle by booster cables and see if the starter behaves differently. If you battery is having amperage delivery problems that might be partly to blame for your starting problems. My guess is though that things have improved since the timing was set.

[kytarheel71]

The car definitely runs better once it is running, has more get up and go to it. That unfortunately didnt help the other problems. It is still very difficult to start . It still occasionally bogs down when i try to accelerate after i leave work in the afternoon. It only happens after i hit the first red light(within 2 minutes), not even up 25mph. As i sit at the light the idle starts to drop, i then put it in neutral and that brings the rpm's back up and steady. When it turns green and i take off it just stutters through the light and then all of a sudden it starts to get up and go. Doesnt happen every day , maybe 1 or 2 times a week. After that it runs perfect.
As for the starting problem i will probably go with a new starter, i hate to do that but it is getting worse every day like it is wearing it out. I'll just bite the bullet and go with a new one and hope(really hope) that fixes it.

[spiffyguido]

I would also have your battery tested. Large stores that sell car batteries (such as Walmart) will do this for free. Phone ahead, take the battery to them and let them test it out. If the battery is fine, then you have more confidence that the starter is in fact on its last legs and is not just suffering from poor current flow out of the battery.

Also, you may want to look at page 693 of the 1983 Honda Prelude shop manual in the Manuals section. It talks about the starting system and how to test the solenoid and starter.

[kytarheel71]

I will do the starter check, pretty sure the battery is good, it is only 4 months old and the voltage is right on the money.

[kytarheel71]

You are not gonna believe this, but when i removed the starter and took it to exchange for my new starter they were not the same. The starter that was in it was for a 87 accord dx. Totally different, my jaw dropped. PO put the wrong one in, course i didnt realize it cause i have never had to mess with it before. Put the new one in and the clunking and kickback are gone. Now to just get the idle problem fixed. Still not right cause it doesnt crank right up and it shutters for about 5 secs. then smoothes out. Also i remember you saying something about the different systems compensating for an out of whack setup. i noticed today when i came to a stop the idle started to drop as usual so i let it go to see if it would die. It got down to around 500rpms started to really shutter , then just as it was about to die something kicked in and the rpm's jumped to about 900 and it was fine afterwards. That give you any ideas.

[spiffyguido]

One of the idle control systems is either having to work too hard or is just being sluggish.

Have you ever checked to make sure your vaccuum lines are in good order?

[kytarheel71]

As far as i can tell i have no vacuum leaks, have found none so far. I have replaced about 10 foot so far just for good measure, planned on doing most of the rest but have not got to it yet.

[Joe]

A VERY GOOD BET ITS THE MAIN RELAY just call any Honda dealer service department and ask them , they do not sell the relay any more but they told me it was a very common problem,my problem went away after a changed it