Hmm, help?

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Tallrunner68
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Hmm, help?

Post by Tallrunner68 »

Car is on the side of the highway right now. Waiting on a trailer to go recover it. Car cut off while driving. No loud noise or anything, nothing telling at first glance under the hood. Electrical still functioned and car would crank, but never start. A low rumble for a second or two, then died again. Never really fully cranking. Cant cunsult the manual until tomorrow, but looking for a good place to start. Any common reasons for car to just die while driving?

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Tallrunner68
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by Tallrunner68 »

Update: very little information I know, but when I got it home I tried to crank it again. It sputters and pops/backfires from the tailpipe. More investigation when I have time. No CEL, but may try to short the connector and check anyway.

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spiffyguido
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by spiffyguido »

Do check for a CEL.

With this type of problem the first thing to do is always check to make sure you're getting the essentials: fuel, spark & air.

Air problems don't pop up immediately like this, unless you submarine the car and fill the air intake up with water. Clearly that's not what happened here.

Spark problems can come on quickly. Perhaps your dizzy just gave up and packed it in. This is rare though. Some other electrical bit in the car could also cause problems with your ignition system, but you'd likely see a CEL if this was the case.

That leaves fuel. When a car just cuts out, then sputters / backfires....I'd guess a fuel problem first. I'd double check to make sure your fuel pump is running; it may have packed it in. Easy to test: After the car has sat for a bit, jump in, leave the door open, and turn the key to the 'on' position. Don't turn the key far enough to run the starter, just to 'on'. Do you hear the fuel pump prime?

Tallrunner68
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by Tallrunner68 »

Thanks, we had the same idea. I had my wife turn the key to on while i positioned myself all around the car listening and i didn't hear the fuel pump kick on. I have noticed harder starts recently but didn't much of it. I have read up on a couple things and think i am going to check the mail relay first. Apparently there are some connections that may need to be re-soldered. I actually just put the climate control unit back in after re-soldering the connections for the switches, to i have everything ready to go. Hopefully that will fix it. Like i said, i am 99% sure now that its not getting fuel due to the fuel pump not kicking on. Just trying to figure out whether or not its the actual pump or the relay that controls it. Spent a good amount of time in the manual (thanks to this website for providing them) and hopefully i can get it tracked down. Thanks for all the help and advice. I am concerned however with the lack of CEL, i will try shorting the connecter and seeing if anything flashes. Without knowing the exact history of this car, I cant even tell you that the bulb works. I will have to keep a better eye on the dash when i get the battery back in.

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spiffyguido
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by spiffyguido »

Checking the relays first before just flat out replacing the pump is wise. You're on a good path.

Tallrunner68
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by Tallrunner68 »

Damn, so pulled the relay and after inspection and consulting the wire diagram I confirmed the the fuel pump solder joint connection was broken. So redid the connection(s) and put it back in. I can hear the pump prime, so good news right? Wrong. Still cranks and cranks but doesn't turn over. Now I can hear a louder pop coming from the tailpipe. Thinking that maybe the pump had lost its prime I cut the switch off and on several times to try and reprime. Still wont turn over. The first crank is a bit sluggish, then speeds up accompanied by the popping. In my haste I forgot to short for a CEL. Thats next. Background on the problem. For a few days beforehand I had noticed a longer period for it to finally turn over when cranking, nothing major. Coming home on the highway, doing about 65. No redlines, nothing hard. Begin a long gradual uphill, car drops gear, rpms go up (but not redlined I assure you) at some point (don't know at what rpm) I lose power. I feel the car slow, can still hear the engine but as I slow and move to the side it sputters and dies. Lead to not starting on side of highway. Worst case I have come across is jumped timing. Belt is still intact as far as I can tell. But as I understand it, if it did jump, it could have bent valves, and I am in for some downtime. Damn...let me check the CEL first and go from there. Oh and a last minute ad, slight fuel leak on the "knoblike" end of the fuel line between the fuel filter and fuel rail that wasnt leaking before.

Tallrunner68
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by Tallrunner68 »

Another update, jumped the 2 prong CEL connector (blue, under dash correct?) Didnt get any codes, just a solid CEL but it doesnt come on unless the connectornis shorted out.

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spiffyguido
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by spiffyguido »

Wouldn't hurt to check the timing. You can do that by getting the valve cover off the engine and looking.

That said, I still think your problems might be fuel related. Do you have the tools required to test the fuel pressure regulator? There should be instructions in the service manual describing how to do this.

You should also take a look at your spark plugs and see if they show any obvious signs of fuel problems. If you search for "reading spark plugs" on google you'll get a bunch of image search results showing how to get hints on engine problems based on how the plugs look. I'm wondering if your fuel rail isn't getting the pressure you need.

Tallrunner68
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by Tallrunner68 »

I have access to a pressure gauge if that is what I need. My friend is currently using it to diagnose fuel problems on K5 blazer actually. I am hoping that it is fuel problem, would be much cheaper I am sure. But doesn't it seem odd for it to have started right in the middle of driving? I am going to try and get a vid of the attempts to start. The popping from the exhuast is troubleing.

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spiffyguido
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by spiffyguido »

Yes, it's all very strange.

Give the timing a check. It can't hurt. Then continue verifying the fuel system. It certainly could of failed mid-drive. Regulator could have broken. Clog could have developed. The pump could have failed causing a reduction in output pressure. All of these things could happen during driving.

Tallrunner68
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by Tallrunner68 »

Fuel pressure checked out, still diagnosing. With limited time to do so lately, its been slow going. Now that fuel is ruled out, I am a little more convinced its a timing issue and a little more major. I will check the plugs when I pull the valve covers and check timing. Not looking good. Timing issues are a little more than I am preapred to deal with right now, time was as well as money wise.

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spiffyguido
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by spiffyguido »

Could still be something simple....belt skipped a cog, etc.

Tallrunner68
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by Tallrunner68 »

Had time tonight to get the valve cover off. Timing belt is intact, actually looks pretty decent. Jacked it up and removed the wheel. Set it to TDC and I have play in cylinder 1 valves, both sides. But also play in cylinder 3 on the exhuast side, but not much. About that time I got the call for dinner, and so she sits. I need to consult the manual to check timing anyway. Two things, I noticed periods where it was hard to turn the engine, and periods where it could be easy trying to get to TDC. Not sure if that is normal or not. Also, the guy I bought it from might have over tightened the spark plugs. They are a bitch just to turn. I turned one, maybe 1/2 and didnt feel it loosen so I let it be. Sprayed a little WD40 in to loosen it, will try again tomorrow. Still have no idea what the problem is. My battery was dead as well even though the car has been off. So many questions an not enough answers at this point.

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spiffyguido
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by spiffyguido »

The engine being hard to turn is just when a cylinder is compressing. Totally normal.

Tallrunner68
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Re: Hmm, help?

Post by Tallrunner68 »

Good to know! I am going to do the valves this weekend (thanks for the vid) and put in new plugs. I was able to pull the old plugs, two of them were really tight. But the threads looked alright when I pulled them, no shavings and using a flashlight I checked the holes and the threads look okay just dirty. The bottom of the hole itselve just looks dirty, how do you clean that? Anyway, the plugs themselves looked a little burnt possible from running seafoam a while back, but the look a little old so I will change them anyway. Hopefully once I get all that she will fire back up.



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