Hello folks...first time user...and ...I'm not mechanically inclined at all...so here's my story:
Needed a beater car to commute, but I didn't want anything too goofy..so after extensive research I found that people really were pleased with the 3rd gen preludes...So after a week of checking craigslist I came across this ad in craigslist (see attached pics)
89 honda prelude - $2000 (Placerville)
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Date: 2012-02-09, 1:32PM PST
Reply to: removed as no allowance for ads from other websites. craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
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Very clean car.Current smog.Clean dmv.only 117000 miles.Must see Price is firm 530 XXX-0271 530 XXX-9922 this is the all wheel steering model
So...I bought it and was stoked that I had a cool car...even though the a/c wasn't working and the interior and exterior def. need some work...
the owner I bought it from only had it a month...
So I noticed a couple small oil leaks...I take into a good mechanic's shop...He is still working on it...but for 300 bucks I'm having (i think) the head gasket replaced and one other gasket or something replaced that were leaking oil...as well as new spark plugs, etc...Also, he checked the timing belt and said it did not need to be replaced...as it didn't look worn, etc...
So, now the fun begins...since my instinct was telling me that something was off since I looked at it...even though I don't know much about cars...I figured with such low miles it would be in better condition...so for a couple bucks I was able to obtain a full report that details the history...and guess what...some s.o.b. in had messed w/ the odometer...here's the odometer history w/ the approx. miles: 2005: 140 k in california; 2005: 194 k in alaska; 2008: n/s; 2009: 216k; 2012: n/s...so I don't think the guy selling it to me rolled back the odometer..., however, the guy prior seemed to own it from 2009: 216k to 01/2012, which is when it was sold to the guy who sold it to me (if that makes sense)...hmmm I was pissed and still am...the owner before the previous owner also has an auto body shop hmmm and when I called him prior to finding out about all this (i called to get some history on the car) he seemed real evasive and talked about how good a car it was and would not give me any concrete info. (maintenance, etc. ) so..now I have a '89 prelude si w/ aws w/ 217k (not 117k) w/ no a/c...should I get rid of it... or invest and take care of it unlike the previous s.o.b.s ??? I have $2300 invested now! any advice or feedback would be appreciated...thank you...
Update on my 4ws...please give feedback
Moderators: RedRacer, spiffyguido
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jdosanjh
- Prelude Enthusiast
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:52 pm
Update on my 4ws...please give feedback
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Last edited by jdosanjh on Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RedRacer
- Moderator
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:38 pm
- Prelude Model: 1995 Si w/mods
- Location: Alabama
Re: How bad did I get screwed?
If you paid the $2000 and the mileage has been altered, yes, you somewhat got taken. But you're in for the long haul now.
Even still, at 217K on an 89, that's not so bad. If you wanted to go with the average mileage for that year car, it should have closer to 345k on it. My 95 has over 300K original miles. Honda engines are known for being strong with extreme longevity. 300K + miles is not unheard of on original motors.
Put it up on a rack and have it looked at from underneath, look for any obvious signs of body repair/damage. If you see any signs of repair that have compromised the structural integrity of the vehicle, like major welds or cuts, then think twice about putting more money into the car until you can have a body shop verify if the car is safe to drive or not. I doubt that's happened, but you never can tell what people are liable to do when it comes to selling used cars.
Your guy has done the plugs and gaskets, checked the timing belt, etc. So I would assume he has changed the oil, checked the other belts and all the hoses, alternator, battery, cooling system, etc. If not, he should.
Did he replace the plug wires, coil wire, distributor cap and rotor button? Those are things I would start with if I didn't know any history for maintenance. New plugs are good, but you get the most with ignition and engine electrics if you do the whole deal. If he has not, I'd work on replacing the things I've listed...doesn't have to be done all at once as it can get expensive.... but should be done a little at a time until everything is replaced. I'd also go with a compression check.
For now, just drive it. You may have a good car with no real problems, but you won't know until you put it through the motions of being used daily.
Just to play it safe I wouldn't venture too far from home and I'd make sure I have an auto club membership, like AAA, or add towing to my car insurance, or just keep an extra hundred bucks in my account in case I need a tow ...... just drive it to work, stay out of bad parts of town and don't go far at night .... and see what it does.
If you get a few weeks of regular driving and no problems, then I'd say you're ok for now and just get to know the car.
You're northern California, right? Summer's aren't really harsh there are they? Not having AC sucks anywhere, but worse in some places than in others.
The little car cosmetically looks pretty decent from the picture you posted.
Keep in touch with us here and let us know if you have any specific problems and we can try and help you out down the road.
Hopefully you just got a car with higher miles than you were told, but nothing else. That would be great.
Even still, at 217K on an 89, that's not so bad. If you wanted to go with the average mileage for that year car, it should have closer to 345k on it. My 95 has over 300K original miles. Honda engines are known for being strong with extreme longevity. 300K + miles is not unheard of on original motors.
Put it up on a rack and have it looked at from underneath, look for any obvious signs of body repair/damage. If you see any signs of repair that have compromised the structural integrity of the vehicle, like major welds or cuts, then think twice about putting more money into the car until you can have a body shop verify if the car is safe to drive or not. I doubt that's happened, but you never can tell what people are liable to do when it comes to selling used cars.
Your guy has done the plugs and gaskets, checked the timing belt, etc. So I would assume he has changed the oil, checked the other belts and all the hoses, alternator, battery, cooling system, etc. If not, he should.
Did he replace the plug wires, coil wire, distributor cap and rotor button? Those are things I would start with if I didn't know any history for maintenance. New plugs are good, but you get the most with ignition and engine electrics if you do the whole deal. If he has not, I'd work on replacing the things I've listed...doesn't have to be done all at once as it can get expensive.... but should be done a little at a time until everything is replaced. I'd also go with a compression check.
For now, just drive it. You may have a good car with no real problems, but you won't know until you put it through the motions of being used daily.
Just to play it safe I wouldn't venture too far from home and I'd make sure I have an auto club membership, like AAA, or add towing to my car insurance, or just keep an extra hundred bucks in my account in case I need a tow ...... just drive it to work, stay out of bad parts of town and don't go far at night .... and see what it does.
If you get a few weeks of regular driving and no problems, then I'd say you're ok for now and just get to know the car.
You're northern California, right? Summer's aren't really harsh there are they? Not having AC sucks anywhere, but worse in some places than in others.
The little car cosmetically looks pretty decent from the picture you posted.
Keep in touch with us here and let us know if you have any specific problems and we can try and help you out down the road.
Hopefully you just got a car with higher miles than you were told, but nothing else. That would be great.
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jdosanjh
- Prelude Enthusiast
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:52 pm
Re: How bad did I get screwed?
Thanks a lot for the help RedRacer...I'll keep you updated...
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jdosanjh
- Prelude Enthusiast
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:52 pm
Re: How bad did I get screwed?
O.K. so here's an update on everything:
Went to a mechanic who did the following: New valve cover gasket; new distributor o-ring; new sprk plug tube seal; new valve cover seal washers; new spark plug wire set; new pcv valve; full oil change: total cost: $400.
This mechanic is reliable and seems very honest...I had him give me an estimate on what parts he thought needed to be taken care of soon and he gave me the following:
front engine mount- parts: 54 labor 95
front brake pads- parts: 59 labor 95
left front axle- parts: 109 labor 95
a/c compressor: parts: 489 labor: 380
receiver/drier: parts: 89 labor 190
retrofit kit to r134: parts: 89 labor 95
r134: parts 40
So the above is a total of $1879.00
and here's the big one, although not listed...the rack and pinion needs replacing due to a leak and mechanic said that it's about 1500 dollars just for the part...
Also, I should add that he said all in all that it's just not worth it to continue putting all this money into it....
I had an idea of maybe getting a parts car for 500 bucks and have someone (a mechanic who would charge very little labor) replace things such as the rack and pinion...
I would really appreciate any feedback...suggestions...comments about pricing etc....thanks in advance...
Went to a mechanic who did the following: New valve cover gasket; new distributor o-ring; new sprk plug tube seal; new valve cover seal washers; new spark plug wire set; new pcv valve; full oil change: total cost: $400.
This mechanic is reliable and seems very honest...I had him give me an estimate on what parts he thought needed to be taken care of soon and he gave me the following:
front engine mount- parts: 54 labor 95
front brake pads- parts: 59 labor 95
left front axle- parts: 109 labor 95
a/c compressor: parts: 489 labor: 380
receiver/drier: parts: 89 labor 190
retrofit kit to r134: parts: 89 labor 95
r134: parts 40
So the above is a total of $1879.00
and here's the big one, although not listed...the rack and pinion needs replacing due to a leak and mechanic said that it's about 1500 dollars just for the part...
Also, I should add that he said all in all that it's just not worth it to continue putting all this money into it....
I had an idea of maybe getting a parts car for 500 bucks and have someone (a mechanic who would charge very little labor) replace things such as the rack and pinion...
I would really appreciate any feedback...suggestions...comments about pricing etc....thanks in advance...
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spiffyguido
- Moderator
- Posts: 2196
- Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:55 am
- Prelude Model: 1991 SE-SR
- Location: Alberta, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Update on my 4ws...please give feedback
Parts car might be a very good idea, or head on over to a self-serve auto wrecker and pull some parts yourself.
Some of the stuff you listed is pretty easy to take care of. The front brake pads for example are about 30 minutes of work. No reason you can't do that yourself.
What's wrong with the front axle? Is the CV joint bad? Or does the axle itself need replacing?
A/C compressor....get one out of a parts car or off ebay. There's no reason to spend that much coin on a compressor. Most of your cost is there.
I'm curious about the leak in the rack and pinion. Is the rack itself leaking? Or is it just one of the hoses or fittings? Either way, I'd find a donor part and have someone swap it in.
Some of the stuff you listed is pretty easy to take care of. The front brake pads for example are about 30 minutes of work. No reason you can't do that yourself.
What's wrong with the front axle? Is the CV joint bad? Or does the axle itself need replacing?
A/C compressor....get one out of a parts car or off ebay. There's no reason to spend that much coin on a compressor. Most of your cost is there.
I'm curious about the leak in the rack and pinion. Is the rack itself leaking? Or is it just one of the hoses or fittings? Either way, I'd find a donor part and have someone swap it in.
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RedRacer
- Moderator
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:38 pm
- Prelude Model: 1995 Si w/mods
- Location: Alabama
Re: Update on my 4ws...please give feedback
Agree with everything Spiffy said here.
The AC compressor in particular, I would NOT spend that kind of cash on. You've still got a few months of cooler temps -- start looking now, put out feelers and locators and you can find the AC comp for way cheap. Still not cheap to have someone install the parts for you, but at least you knock off a good 500 bucks almost by getting a used one.
You need to knock around and find guys in your area with Preludes, get in with them and get friendly -- you can offer them a case of beer (AFTER the repairs) for help with working on your car and you can learn from them too.
Find out about that axle - usually the axle doesn't have to be replaced when the CV's go bad, unless it's just been driven forever with bad CV's and they've chewed the end of the axle, but a lot of shops just like to replace it all. Not necessary.
Another thing to consider is that when one CV goes, the other is soon to go. Like headlights being replaced in pairs -- so keep that in mind. Right now it's cheaper to just repair the one, but if you can do it, get the other one replaced anyway because it's not far behind in failing. You don't have to do it right away, but just don't be surprised or mad when it comes up.
Yeah I would find out about the rack for sure. Hoses and fittings can easily be fixed. I drove my 84 Celica GTS with an actual leaking rack for years before it actually started affecting the steering and handling of the car -- but it's not something you should igonore. I would say you don't have to get fixed today -- it needs to be fixed, but work it in down the road.
As for the 4WS - don't worry over it. It was a great little performance add-on for the car, but if it fails or has failed, it's not critical to the car being driven normally. When those systems shut down, they lock in a neutral position and it has no bearing on the car being driven like it would otherwise. One thing though, 4WS cars have to be aligned differently. Make SURE if you keep this car and you ever have wheel and tire work done, that the shop doing the work REALLY DOES know and have the specs and tools for doing proper alignment on the 4WS system. If they do not, find one. Bad work on the 4WS will shred your tires and make the car handle like crap.
Keep us posted --
The AC compressor in particular, I would NOT spend that kind of cash on. You've still got a few months of cooler temps -- start looking now, put out feelers and locators and you can find the AC comp for way cheap. Still not cheap to have someone install the parts for you, but at least you knock off a good 500 bucks almost by getting a used one.
You need to knock around and find guys in your area with Preludes, get in with them and get friendly -- you can offer them a case of beer (AFTER the repairs) for help with working on your car and you can learn from them too.
Find out about that axle - usually the axle doesn't have to be replaced when the CV's go bad, unless it's just been driven forever with bad CV's and they've chewed the end of the axle, but a lot of shops just like to replace it all. Not necessary.
Another thing to consider is that when one CV goes, the other is soon to go. Like headlights being replaced in pairs -- so keep that in mind. Right now it's cheaper to just repair the one, but if you can do it, get the other one replaced anyway because it's not far behind in failing. You don't have to do it right away, but just don't be surprised or mad when it comes up.
Yeah I would find out about the rack for sure. Hoses and fittings can easily be fixed. I drove my 84 Celica GTS with an actual leaking rack for years before it actually started affecting the steering and handling of the car -- but it's not something you should igonore. I would say you don't have to get fixed today -- it needs to be fixed, but work it in down the road.
As for the 4WS - don't worry over it. It was a great little performance add-on for the car, but if it fails or has failed, it's not critical to the car being driven normally. When those systems shut down, they lock in a neutral position and it has no bearing on the car being driven like it would otherwise. One thing though, 4WS cars have to be aligned differently. Make SURE if you keep this car and you ever have wheel and tire work done, that the shop doing the work REALLY DOES know and have the specs and tools for doing proper alignment on the 4WS system. If they do not, find one. Bad work on the 4WS will shred your tires and make the car handle like crap.
Keep us posted --
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spiffyguido
- Moderator
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- Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:55 am
- Prelude Model: 1991 SE-SR
- Location: Alberta, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Update on my 4ws...please give feedback
Great comments from RedRacer.
I'm going to offer further thoughts on one topic: the 4WS.
As your car is a 3rd generation Prelude (years 1988-1991) the 4WS isn't electronic, it's fully mechanical. This means that the racks for the front AND rear must be functioning to safely drive the car. Your racks probably still have lots of life in them, so they're fine for now, despite the leaks (unless the leaks are really bad). Unlike an electronic system, your rack won't go into a neutral position if something breaks, as the direction of the rear rack is solely determined by the output on the front rack.
As a general rule, if you don't absolutely have to touch the rear rack of your 4WS system, don't touch it. They require a special tool to align that you're likely to only find in really good mechanic shops and Honda dealers. As RedRacer said, if you do need to get your car aligned, ask the mechanic who will be doing the alignment about the 'special tool' required to do the 4WS alignment before they put your car up on a hoist. If they can't tell you about the tool and how it works, take your car elsewhere.
I'm going to offer further thoughts on one topic: the 4WS.
As your car is a 3rd generation Prelude (years 1988-1991) the 4WS isn't electronic, it's fully mechanical. This means that the racks for the front AND rear must be functioning to safely drive the car. Your racks probably still have lots of life in them, so they're fine for now, despite the leaks (unless the leaks are really bad). Unlike an electronic system, your rack won't go into a neutral position if something breaks, as the direction of the rear rack is solely determined by the output on the front rack.
As a general rule, if you don't absolutely have to touch the rear rack of your 4WS system, don't touch it. They require a special tool to align that you're likely to only find in really good mechanic shops and Honda dealers. As RedRacer said, if you do need to get your car aligned, ask the mechanic who will be doing the alignment about the 'special tool' required to do the 4WS alignment before they put your car up on a hoist. If they can't tell you about the tool and how it works, take your car elsewhere.
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jdosanjh
- Prelude Enthusiast
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:52 pm
Re: Update on my 4ws...please give feedback
Thanks guys...I do appreciate the feedback and the energy both of you have put it in...however...I've decided to sell it...
I just don't have the time nor patience for all of this...so I'll be posting up on craigslist soon (with the correct mileage)...so if you know anyone who wants to buy a 4ws prelude for cheap...let them know...I'll take the best offer...thanks again...and if I buy another prelude, I know which website to go to...take care and enjoy your cars!!!
I just don't have the time nor patience for all of this...so I'll be posting up on craigslist soon (with the correct mileage)...so if you know anyone who wants to buy a 4ws prelude for cheap...let them know...I'll take the best offer...thanks again...and if I buy another prelude, I know which website to go to...take care and enjoy your cars!!!
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spiffyguido
- Moderator
- Posts: 2196
- Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:55 am
- Prelude Model: 1991 SE-SR
- Location: Alberta, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Update on my 4ws...please give feedback
Good luck with the sale. Thanks for visiting our forum. Preludes are great cars. If you ever find another one be sure to stop in here.
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okak
- Prelude Enthusiast
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:47 am
Re: Update on my 4ws...please give feedback
Few years ago I bought Prelude 85. I've noticed a bit low fluid level in power steering container. I bought Dexron II/III(?) The power steering rack started to leak badly! The gearbox specialist, reconditioned the rack for A$500.- Now I read in Honda Owner's Manual (my new Prelude 89 4WS) that one should use ONLY Honda Power Steering Fluid! For the auto gearbox though, the manual says - Dexron/II.
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RedRacer
- Moderator
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:38 pm
- Prelude Model: 1995 Si w/mods
- Location: Alabama
Re: Update on my 4ws...please give feedback
Honda fluids have additional lubricants to lube seals and condition them from leaking. Sure, it's probably not going to be the immediate end to your components if you use something other than Honda, but it's fluids, why hassle yourself over it? Just get the Honda brand, stock up a couple of bottles and you're good to go. In the long run, yes, use only the Honda fluids and remove any doubts you have. I've never used anything but Honda branded liquids (except ant-freeze and brake fluid). Also gives you peace of mind.