96 H22a not running , not sure what to do

[matt]

my 96 with a H22a stopped running when I was coming to a stop sign, I was doing about 5 mph when this happened.It turns over and the fuel pump works also.I get a little back flush of what looks like unburned fuel ( smoky exhaust looking ) in the air filter box. I ordered a ignition coil and have replaced the plug wires cap and rotor. Does this sound like a timing issue? I am at joker.leary@gmail.com if you could send an email I would greatly appreciate it , thanks matt

[RedRacer]

How had the car been running up to that point?

Is there still spark?

When was the timing belt last replaced?

So many things it could be. Need a little more info.

Spiffyquido will probably have some better beginning ideas than I have.

He'll respond pretty quick.

Sorry your car is down. I know that feeling and it sucks.

[spiffyguido]

For starters, I'm curious about the questions already posed by RedRacer. Since your car just stopped while running, I suspect an electrical problem, but there could have been a mechanical issue as well.

Don't worry too much about the junk in your air filter. That's likely just caused by a faulty PCV valve. You should fix it, but it certainly won't make your engine stop working.

[matt]

For starters, I'm curious about the questions already posed by RedRacer. Since your car just stopped while running, I suspect an electrical problem, but there could have been a mechanical issue as well.

Don't worry too much about the junk in your air filter. That's likely just caused by a faulty PCV valve. You should fix it, but it certainly won't make your engine stop working.

the car has approx. 110,000 miles and I don't know if the timing belt has been changed. I do remember smelling a slight hot electrical smell a couple of weeks prior, I just assumed it was the car ahead of me. When I was replacing the cap and rotor I went to pull the ignition wire off and the female connector that attaches to the cap came off and stayed on the old cap. I did notice that there was what looked like melted rubber inside the end where the connector came out of so I pulled the wire from the 90 degree end piece off and noticed that the insulation on the wire was what looked like to be slightly brown and a little melted. my parts come in tomorrow from napa and I am replacing the ignition and plug wires. I didn't have anyone to turn the car over so I could see if there was any spark so I can't tell if it had spark or good spark. The car gad been running pretty good up till this point also. I was getting about 30 mpg, the car sat for almost 3 years prior to me buying it in april with 98,000 miles on it. The prior owner had it as a project car and had the 5 speed manual replaced in it and never drove it after the replacement either. I replaced the exhaust too.

[RedRacer]

I want to lean towards something electrical then. Not a timing belt that snapped.

Replace the coil wire, cap, rotor, plugs (good idea to go with the NGK plugs if you can afford them, for the H22VTEC's they're about 20 bucks a piece) I'm thinking you'll be okay.

Headed in the right direction, starting with the smallest possible problem and working toward anything larger if this doesn't do it.

Let us know what happens next.

Spiffy, any suggestions? You da man ya know, so tell us what you think!

[matt]

I want to lean towards something electrical then. Not a timing belt that snapped.

Replace the coil wire, cap, rotor, plugs (good idea to go with the NGK plugs if you can afford them, for the H22VTEC's they're about 20 bucks a piece) I'm thinking you'll be okay.

Headed in the right direction, starting with the smallest possible problem and working toward anything larger if this doesn't do it.

Let us know what happens next.

Spiffy, any suggestions? You da man ya know, so tell us what you think!

thanks for your guys help, I appreciate it. You are very prompt and that is reassuring, since this is my first Honda I don't know a whole lot about them.any more info is greatly appreciated.

[spiffyguido]

I agree with RedRacer.

Start by replacing the coil wire and the plugs. I'd check each of your spark plug wires over as well. It sounds like there has been some electrical damage in that region.

Once you're sure the wires are good, you can move on to looking at the timing, and potentially the coil itself. Coils don't often fail though, so more likely, it's a wiring problem somewhere. Testing for spark is easy enough, and if you're unsure how to do it, let us know and we can help.

[matt]

I agree with RedRacer.

Start by replacing the coil wire and the plugs. I'd check each of your spark plug wires over as well. It sounds like there has been some electrical damage in that region.

Once you're sure the wires are good, you can move on to looking at the timing, and potentially the coil itself. Coils don't often fail though, so more likely, it's a wiring problem somewhere. Testing for spark is easy enough, and if you're unsure how to do it, let us know and we can help.

well I replaced all of the plug wires and coil, the cap and rotor, and plugs too. I finally had someone there to turn over the engine and i watched and listened . To my conclusion , as he was turning it over I could hear a knocking noise coming from the right side near the timing housing area. my suspicion is the timing belt is bad. How can I tell for sure? can I take that cover off of the right side and see the belt easily? and if the timing is bad what would it cost in a round about estimate? I love this car and it sucks I sold my 2008 ninja to fund it and I don't want to junk it, just hoping to get it fixed.As my other vehicle is an chevy venture van

[RedRacer]

First - STOP CRANKING THE ENGINE AT THIS POINT. If the belt did snap or slip, you don't want the pistons colliding with the valves.

Man, that's not what I wanted to hear. Doesn't mean it is the timing belt, but, chances are - engine that's running fine and under power and then just stops running and doesn't want to get going again, in my experiences, timing belt.

Also part of my reasoning for a timing belt issue is you said the car had 98K on it when you got and it had been sitting up for three years. If it was sitting up out of doors exposed to cold and hot temps and weather extremes, the rubber in belts and hoses degrades and well, if the belt had not been replaced at 90k as it should have been, then it was already running close to the end of its useful life --- so with element exposure and temp extremes, it took what extra life it may have had left. I'm surprised it lasted this long, assuming it's what is wrong.

First thing you need to do is scroll up to the top of this page under the main page header and click on MANUALS (open it in a new tab preferably) then scroll down the MANUALS page to the 4th gen section.

The main manual with all sections covered is the SECOND one listed *53MB. BUT - that manual does NOT cover the H22 motor. SO, you also need to get the LAST manual listed, *39MB In this secondary manual, you'll need to go to section 6-73 (engine, section six, page 73) That shows you how to remove the cylinder head cover. Which you will need to do in order to remove the timing belt cover listed in 6-107 and higher, which explain all about timing belt and balancer belt inspection, removal and replacement.

NOW -- that said - if you're not familiar with working on engines or have never worked on a Honda motor, I wouldn't suggest that this be your first go at it as a learning experience. If you have someone who does know these motors, then get them to help you and learn from them.

Otherwise unless you have the time, patience and money and want to start with this repair, I would take it to a mechanic. It's semi-complicated, you will need easy top and bottom access to the engine and unless you have a lift, it's not going to be easy.

When you replace the timing belt in the Honda, you also need to replace the water pump, as they share the same belt.
If the water pump isn't replaced and you install a new timing belt and the old water pump seizes, it WILL bust the new timing belt ..... then you're replacing ANOTHER timing belt AND the water pump. So, DO THEM TOGETHER. And in this car, with the miles and history, it's time for a new pump.

As for the costs -- not cheap. If you're lucky to find someone to do it for under $700 you're doing well. On average, around 700 to 900. DO NOT TAKE IT TO A DEALER. But DO take it to a Honda shop or mechanic. Dealer is going to screw you for over a grand I'd bet. Call around and ask, get multiple quotes, make sure they're quoting belt AND water pump in the same price.

NOW -- the other thing we have to look at or consider, if the belt did snap, was there any engine damage caused? Maybe not, since you were going so slow. The lower RPM might have helped matters. This is an interference engine. The valves and pistons rely on the timing to keep them from not slamming into each other. When the belt breaks or slips, the pistons slam into the valves and presto, you've got a major and expensive repair on your hands. Fingers crossed that you have zero damage in this case. I had my Lexus throw a belt at 60 mph -- no damage. LUCKY!

So, that's where I leave it for now.

Spiffy may have some added advice or even different or better advice.

Good luck and keep us informed and don't hesitate to ask other questions.

[spiffyguido]

First off, RedRacer has given great advice on the timing belt. I'll add that even though you don't need to take it to a Honda dealer to get the work done, we always suggest that people buy OEM Honda parts for such repairs. You really can't beat the quality. If you're in the US, cheap OEM honda parts can be bought at http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com.

I also agree that if you're new to mechanical work, the timing belt is not the first thing you want to try and change. It's not super hard if you know what you're doing, but you do need to know what you're doing.

If you want to confirm that the belt is broken, I suggest the following.

Lift up the driver's side wheel of the car. Put a jackstand under the car for safety and then remove the driver's side front wheel. When the wheel is off, you should see an access port in the fender well that will allow you do look inside the timing belt housing. Get a flashlight and a try to see inside if you can see the belt. You should see a frayed edge or see that the belt has come loose.

With the wheel off, you'll also be able to throw a wrench on the main pulley and GENTLY rotate the engine. Do this with the car in neutral (engine not running, obviously) and you will be able to listen and hear the valve train. If something is busted, you'll likely be able to tell. If you meet any resistance beyond a cylinder pressurizing, stop turning. DO NOT do this if you can see that the belt is busted. Never turn a Honda engine with a busted belt.

If you belt is ravaged, replacement is the only option. You will also have to take steps to make sure no engine damage has resulted. Best case, this means pulling the head off. Easier would be to do a compression test and survey the topside of the valves by removing the valve cover.

If you are going to tackle this yourself, study the manual, then study it again. Make sure you have all the required parts and tools before you begin. Use your head as you go. The manual suggest paths for completing the procedure that aren't always required. For example, it usually isn't required to remove an engine to swap the timing belt, but the manual will often suggest it. You can sometimes get around this with an engine hoist and removing the driver's side engine mount temporarily.

Also, if you can buy a case of beer or a pizza for a friend and have them help you, it will save you time. Having someone to hold parts and help you line up the engine when the new belt goes on is invaluable.